- You don’t need a lot of resources to start your entrepreneurial journey. You can literally start with nothing.
- Your desire to succeed must be self-created. It will not be given to you.
- Facing adversity is a strength in your life, and so we shouldn’t spend our lives trying to get that adversity to go away.
Meet Michael Ly
Our guest, Michael Ly, is a serial entrepreneur. He is the founder of Reconciled, an online bookkeeping and accounting service, Humanly, which provides on-demand HR solutions for entrepreneurs and Saasable, an online app for business owners to help them keep track of their recurring revenue metrics.
Smart Man, Smarter Woman References
We talk about a lot in each episode; however, we don’t want you to miss a thing! Here are some key items were mentioned if you want to take a closer look.
Getting Naked by Patrick Lencioni
Learn more about our Cloud Accounting Services here
Steve Loates (00:06):
Welcome to Smart Man and Smarter Woman, a podcast for entrepreneurs. I am Steve Loates.
Juliet Aurora (00:14):
I am Juliet Aurora.
Steve Loates (00:16):
We are your co-hosts. We have a great show for you today with our very special guest, Mr. Michael Ly, who is a serial entrepreneur, virtual CFO, speaker, coach, and advisor. He’s a very busy guy. Before I officially introduce Michael, let’s hear from my wonderful cohost, the smarter woman herself, Juliet.
Juliet Aurora (00:43):
Good afternoon, or I guess it could be good evening or good morning depending on when you’re listening to this. I’m actually really looking forward to today’s episode.
Juliet Aurora (00:53):
I met Michael back in 2018 when his firm had been voted into the Global Firm of the Future for his accounting and bookkeeping firm. Michael is in the same industry as we are. I met Michael briefly when he had won the US title and was vying for the global title, only met him briefly, was excited about what he was doing, but got to know Michael a little bit better.
Juliet Aurora (01:24):
We’re both members of a very small group called the Accounting Salon in the US and got to meet Michael and learn more about him and get to know him a lot better and have been so impressed with all the things that he’s… I don’t know where he finds the time to do all the things that he does. There’s actually a running joke in the Accounting Salon that there’s probably only a matter of time that we’re all going to be carrying banners, Michael Ly for president, that he’s just going to take over the world with all this stuff that he’s doing, so very excited about the conversation that’s coming today.
Juliet Aurora (01:57):
Michael Ly (01:58):
Right. Thank you, Juliet. Thank you, Steve.
Juliet Aurora (02:02):
As I mentioned at the beginning, our podcast is for and about entrepreneurs. Our goal, with each episode, is going to be try to provide some entertainment but, most importantly, some value, some insights, hopefully some gold nuggets that can help other entrepreneurs on their journey no matter where they are on their journey, whether they’re just starting or they’ve been an entrepreneur for many years.
Juliet Aurora (02:30):
I’ll give you a little bit of background on Michael, and then we’ll get right into our chat together. He currently lives in Burlington, Vermont with his wife and kids, graduated from Arizona State University with a degree in business administration and then obtained his MBA in entrepreneurial studies from Babson College.
Juliet Aurora (02:55):
He is currently the owner of… I guess this is why we him a serial entrepreneur. He has one company called Reconciled, which is an online bookkeeping and accounting service that he launched in 2015, another business which launched, I believe, in 2019 called Humanly, which provides on-demand HR solutions for entrepreneurs. Then that was followed by a business, forgive me if I don’t pronounce this correctly, Michael, but I’ll have my best run at it, Saasable, an online app for business owners, bookkeepers and accountants to help them keep track of their recurring revenue metrics.
Juliet Aurora (03:42):
Welcome, Michael. Thank you very much for joining us. How did I do there? Did I mess that up completely or was it accurate?
Michael Ly (03:50):
You did fine, Steve. You did fine.
Steve Loates (03:52):
Okay, well, thank you. Glad you could join us. I guess we should start off. Perhaps you could tell us a little bit about your background and maybe how did you get started on your own entrepreneurial journey?
Michael Ly (04:07):
Yeah, thanks. That’s a great question, Steve. I grew up in Tempe, Arizona, and my parents were refugees from Cambodia. Me and my siblings watched our parents create something out of nothing, create a life for themselves through their entrepreneurial spirit. They both were entrepreneurs and both retired as entrepreneurs as well. My siblings and I watched them do that. When I got to college at Arizona State, I find myself always getting involved in starting new things and whether it was a new club, a new organization. My sophomore year of college, I actually started a software company that built Palm Pilot software, if you guys remember when the Palm Pilots were around?
Steve Loates (04:59):
Juliet Aurora (05:00):
Michael Ly (05:01):
Yeah, so we started-
Juliet Aurora (05:01):
We’re dating ourselves. We’re dating ourselves, but yes.
Michael Ly (05:04):
Yeah. My high school buddy and I built Palm Pilot software and, at the time, began developing a markup language that would convert websites to be readable on Palm Pilots and other wireless devices. We spent about two years doing that and, at that time, was studying Arizona State trying to get through, trying to finish college.
Michael Ly (05:26):
I finished college and then went to work for a accounting firm right out of college, not in their tax or audit group but in their consulting group, and that’s where I kind of cut my teeth on general consulting for this accounting firm. That was the start of my entrepreneurial journey is in college and kind of figuring out what I was really good at. I found myself really being great at just starting new things and coming up with the idea and trying to bring that into fruition. That’s probably where things began.
Juliet Aurora (06:03):
Are your siblings also following the entrepreneurial path?
Michael Ly (06:07):
Yes, yes. My older sister is a very successful real estate entrepreneur and has done very well for herself, has made millions of dollars doing that here in Arizona. Then my younger brother, who’s a year younger than me but about a foot taller than me, he is a very successful consumer electronics and commercial electronics entrepreneur. He actually has his own consumer electronics brand. Most would not be familiar with it because, usually, businesses are buying his brand. Think electronics for big hotels and stadiums, electronics for luxury homes, things like that. He’s done very well for himself there.
Michael Ly (06:54):
Yeah, so my siblings have followed that suit. None of us got formal training in our undergrad days. We really got that route from our parents, and then I was the only one to get formalized entrepreneurial training when I got my MBA at Babson College.
Juliet Aurora (07:11):
Okay, so it definitely did flow from your parents and watching what they built that all of you have followed different versions of that path, but interesting.
Steve Loates (07:21):
Yeah, no. That is fascinating that all three of you are successful in your own right but completely different areas. I mean they’re not even related other than they obviously need accounting.
Michael Ly (07:36):
Right, right. My mother and father, my mother was a seamstress. She learned how to do seamstress work when she got to America and basically started a path on that and built her own seamstress business and was able to sell it before retirement. Then my father, who never cooked anything in his life, learned how to cook when he came to America and was a chef for most of his life and then eventually opened his own restaurant and sold that before retirement. These were all skills that they gained here building a life from nothing and then they indirectly passed onto us by allowing us to watch and modeling it for us.
Steve Loates (08:17):
Terrific. Well, what would you say would be the number-one thing you learned from your parents, in terms of being an entrepreneur, that has steered you well in your own path?
Michael Ly (08:32):
Yeah. I would say probably two or three main things. The one is you don’t need a lot of resources, or really any, to begin your entrepreneurial journey. You can literally start with nothing.
Michael Ly (08:45):
Two is you don’t need to know the skill or even know the language in order to begin your entrepreneurial journey. You can learn a new skill and you can learn a new language, if that’s what it takes, or you can learn the industry’s language if that’s what it takes.
Michael Ly (09:01):
Three, you need enough willingness and enough hunger or desire to succeed. That’s something that’s usually self-created. It’s often not given to you. It’s very hard to replicate in people. It’s usually created because of life circumstance or personality or the situation you’re in. Some people call it self-motivation. I think a few of those things we were able to indirectly imbibe or take from our parents without them sitting down at the kitchen table and actually formally teaching us those lessons so that those are definitely three lessons I learned.
Michael Ly (09:46):
Probably, the last one is adversity is a strength. Facing adversity is a strength in your life, and so we shouldn’t spend our lives or our times trying to get that adversity to go away. It’s actually something that you want to have in your life, in your kid’s life because learning how to deal with adversity and succeed through it or even fail in it and learn why you failed helps you become a better and better person and lets you deal with future adversity, which is all part of the entrepreneurial journey is adversity all the time. Every day, there’s a new thing that’s you’re going to have to learn or come against, and you’re going to have to learn how to push through it or punch through it to succeed.
Juliet Aurora (10:28):
I have a question then. My parents are first-generation immigrants into Canada. Again, started with nothing. They weren’t refugees but came with very little and built a life for themselves and for my sister and myself. Your parents have done something similar. You’re, I guessed, first generation that you were raised in America. The values that I’ve learned growing up are very different than what my parents learned. Now that I have kids and mine are grown, I’ve seen that they don’t have the same drive or the same that we did watching our parents having to go through those struggles because they didn’t necessarily see me go through those struggles. Do you think that that is going to be different for your kids because your kids are still fairly young?
Michael Ly (11:26):
Yeah, my kids are fairly young. I think there is a reality that, unless we make intentional lifestyle decisions that allow them to be exposed to these similar kind of challenges that we had growing up, it will be very challenging for them to learn, indirectly or directly, the same lessons we learned.
Michael Ly (11:52):
For example, just simply the cost of living level you decide to live at and the types of restaurants and places you decide to eat and the places you shop, the kind of clothing you wear, the kind of cars you drive, the kind of home you’ll buy, those send different messages to your children.
Michael Ly (12:12):
I’ll take a tune from my siblings, both of whom I love and respect and who have chosen to live a lifestyle that I think my parents would never have imagined for us, never have imagined for us and I would consider at the 1% or near the 1% of society. That sends a very different message to their kids they’re raising when you’re raised that way and as opposed to the decision my wife and I have made is that we would never live at a lifestyle above middle class even if we had the opportunity to live at that lifestyle.
Michael Ly (12:53):
That’s a very intentional decision. It doesn’t make us better. It doesn’t make us better people. What it does is, for us, is say what values do we want to pass down to our kids? Even at that level, I still find it challenging for my kids to learn the same grit, the same adversity that I faced and you faced, that I went through, because my kids aren’t the first multi-ethnic or colored kids at their school. They’re not the first ones. They’re not the first Chinese or Indian kids at their school. I was.
Juliet Aurora (13:26):
Yes, likewise. Yeah.
Michael Ly (13:28):
Yeah. They’re not the first kids to be assumed that they don’t know English. I was. I was the first kid where everyone assumed you don’t know English even though I was born a month after my parents came and English was the primary language I learned.
Michael Ly (13:43):
Those are all the things, if you think through your history growing up, all the adversity, all the challenges, all the things you witnessed your parents do, save, work hard, eventually get you in the middle class, maybe even the upper middle class, that they’re so proud of. We assume, okay, they worked that hard. Let’s pass that down to our kids, but then where do all those lessons go, and how do I still impart those? That is challenging, and I agree with you.
Michael Ly (14:09):
Then, on top of that, we live in this idyllic, beautiful state called Vermont where nothing bad happens, and there’s very little diversity, and it’s very progressive in his values, and so we’re also challenged around how do I preserve the cultural heritage of my parents that they gave to me and that I give to them when my kids don’t… they’re not surrounded by it anymore or don’t necessarily see it every day that those first few years of eating on the floor with my family and my relatives eating traditional Cambodian meals, going to traditional Cambodian gatherings, going to the park or going to free entertainment and not enjoying luxury at all. My kids will never experience that. You know?
Juliet Aurora (14:53):
Michael Ly (14:55):
Yeah, those are definitely challenging.
Juliet Aurora (15:01):
You mentioned this. Part of the reason that entrepreneurs are successful is this hunger or this desire. It really is a balance to be able to have your kids feel that.
Juliet Aurora (15:17):
My daughter, we put in private school up until grade eight. We pulled her out in grade eight when I was sitting around this table at her graduation with all the other moms. It was a fairly high-end… We were the poor people in the private school. We were sitting around this table, and all these moms said, when they heard that I actually work, “What? You work? How do you manage all of that?” Then what they were talking about was, after graduation, they were going to the South of France for the summer or they were going to their cottage for the whole summer. None of their kids were working. None of them were working.
Juliet Aurora (16:03):
Steve and I said to each other, we said, “Okay. Well, is this what we want [Sierra 00:00:16:07],” who’s our daughter, “to feel that this is normal?” As you said, it’s surrounding your kids with something… and so we pulled her out of private school and put her in public school so that she would have a sense of normal. It is a fine balance between saying, “I want to give my kids a better life than I had,” and then being able to still have them learn the things that you learned because you had difficult times. We’ve totally gone off topic of entrepreneurship and we’re talking about parenting instead, but I thought it was fairly important.
Steve Loates (16:44):
I think, in a lot of ways, entrepreneurship and parenting are very similar, so-
Juliet Aurora (16:49):
Steve Loates (16:51):
I’m not sure we went completely off topic at all.
Steve Loates (16:55):
Michael, you mentioned, as an entrepreneur, that we face obstacle after obstacle after obstacle and, usually, they’re different each time. Can you think of, perhaps, a main obstacle or a major obstacle that you have faced in your journey, and how did you overcome it?
Michael Ly (17:21):
Yeah. Depending on your audience, I don’t know how much they’ll resonate with this, but I… one obstacle that I’ve had to overcome, and it took me a while to overcome even at… I’m 38 years old now and, even at 38, I still find sometimes challenging is the idea of honouring your elder and how that relates in a business. I found myself lacking confidence around selling myself, selling my services, selling my value when it came to talking to older people and older business owners or those that I would consider, in my culture growing up, my elders. I would rarely, if ever, refer to my elders by their first name. I would have, usually, an uncle or aunt’s title for them.
Michael Ly (18:17):
That was really challenging in business, especially as I went out on my own to begin my entrepreneur journey and having to speak to people whom I looked up at, literally physically because I’m a short guy, but I looked up at, but also, I looked up to because of they’re of older age and how to sell that value that, instinctively, I didn’t learn growing up to sell. Instead, I learned more of an honor and a learn-from approach from elders. That was definitely a challenge in how to do that and how to say, look, I’m old enough to, one, say I do have value, and I’m old enough to communicate that I have value. Why do I feel like I’m still a child when I’m around or surrounded by these groups of people?
Michael Ly (19:15):
It all comes down to, obviously, my own identity, how I view myself, my relationship with my dad when he… My parents got divorced when I was young, and so my relationship with my dad and how he was a part and then not a part of my life, but also just the fact that cultural upbringing, there’s just a relationship, a proper way you address relationship and view relationship between older people and younger people. I think that was a big part of the challenge I had and never being able to… or having a hard time to fully embracing, hey, I can sit in this seat of CEO, and I can sell the value that I want to sell for money without disrespecting, without dishonouring people that are older than me, that that’s possible.
Michael Ly (20:03):
That’s weird, very weird, probably, to hear, because I did grow up in America. I did grow up with learning and understanding American and Western norms. It’s just I just found myself very surprised, when I entered the entrepreneurial field, how difficult it was for me to overcome that. Yeah, I think that’s probably one of the biggest challenges I had.
Michael Ly (20:25):
Then the second one was probably learning to say no, learning to say no to good opportunities for great ones. I wouldn’t say I’ve been perfect at that yet. I’m still learning both sides, but learning to say no for great opportunities versus good ones. You know?
Steve Loates (20:42):
Juliet Aurora (20:43):
Okay. Can you shed some light on maybe what your qualification process is for you to determine… because, at the beginning, you don’t always know if it’s going to be good versus great. Can you share some insight as to what your thought process is when you are offered an opportunity to decide?
Michael Ly (21:05):
Yeah, yeah. I think, by you defining, first of all, what your overall goals are for yourself, for your… professionally, personally, what those overall goals are and what your own value system is and putting that down so that, every opportunity that comes to you or every idea that comes to your mind, you can have a filter through in which you can process those. Then you want to mix that in with, okay, where do I have natural strengths and talents and, also, what’s the highest value I can give to the world, right now, that’s unique to me and that no one else you can uniquely provide?
Michael Ly (21:51):
I’d love the idea of, for example, innovating in the sports world, but I don’t play a single sport. All I do is enjoy them. I enjoy going to a sports suite and enjoying the hot dogs and drinks.
Juliet Aurora (22:05):
Michael Ly (22:06):
That’s the most I can think of, so any innovation in the sports world, I’m pretty much not going to be involved, even if I had the opportunity to, because there’s about zero value I can provide in it. It doesn’t really fit my lifestyle, the values that I have. Sports doesn’t consume my life, so that would be one.
Michael Ly (22:27):
I love the idea of one day… I enjoy traveling to and love staying in hotels. I love traveling. I love, especially with my wife, just love going places, but me ever running or owning a hotel would… or even being in the hospitality industry is kind of an absurd idea for me personally. Now, can I consult people and give advice and stuff like that? Yeah, that’s great, but that’s probably the highest value I could do. Me going out and actually opening up a luxury hotel or trying to innovate in that industry, it just doesn’t make any sense. It doesn’t fit the category. In my mind, that’s how I filter great versus good.
Michael Ly (23:09):
The greatest and highest opportunities, for me, would fit as many of those criteria as possible and ultimately would match, maybe, even the way I want to live with my family and integrate my family into my life. If there is an idea out there or an opportunity that integrates that ultimately in my belief system, my faith system, all that stuff, then that’s probably the greatest value of something that I should be participating in.
Juliet Aurora (23:35):
You have, certainly, a lot of introspective responses that you have to be very clear on who you are, what your belief system is, what your values are to be able to easily be able to determine whether it’s a good opportunity or a great opportunity. That’s a great answer. Thank you very much.
Steve Loates (23:55):
I mean, if you look in a lot of the really, I guess, famous entrepreneurs, the Steve Jobs, the Richard Bransons, even the Warren Buffet, I mean all of them say one of the keys to being successful are the things you say no to, that you’ve really got to learn how to focus on making sure the yeses that you say are for the right opportunities. That was great. Thank you for that, Michael.
Steve Loates (24:30):
Most entrepreneurs are continuous learners. How do you continue to learn in order to stay on top of things within the many roles you have? I mean is it books, videos, podcasts? What do you find are the best things for you?
Michael Ly (24:49):
Yeah, that’s a great question. I do spend time reading, whether it’s books, articles, magazines, newsletters, anything I can get a hold on that I believe is going to provide great value to me and helped me learn new things and also help me keep up to date on industry trends.
Michael Ly (25:16):
I like to read. I like to read material that allows me to learn life-long wisdom and lessons versus just short-term fables or short-term fads, and so I do generally find myself wanting to read biographies, history, as well as books that have stood the test of time. Whether they be spiritual, philosophical, cultural, if they’ve stood the test of time and have provided wisdom to millions of people for a long period of time, they’re probably going to stand the test of time for the next few thousand years.
Michael Ly (25:59):
It’s hard for me to start and read a book that I believe, after starting it, will not stand the test of time and will not be relevant in 50 or 100 years. Usually, those books aren’t worth finishing. A lot of the books aren’t worth finishing. If you think about how many books are produced and that you read every year, most of them aren’t worth finishing, and so I try to find those books. Usually, those books stand out the moment you start reading them because there’s wisdom or unique wisdom that you get a sense of from reading those books. I spend most of my time doing that.
Michael Ly (26:39):
I core myself. Many people believe this. Many people don’t. I’m a person of faith, so I kind of anchor myself in the Bible, which is, I consider, one of the greatest books ever written, if you want to call it that, or ever inspired. It’s impacted millions, millions of people in history and many think is the inspiration for the Western world and Judeo-Christian thought. I ground myself in a lot of the wisdom from there but then surround myself by other wisdom literature as well.
Michael Ly (27:13):
Then I participate in things like the Accounting Salon, but also, I’m a part of this group called Vistage that meets once a month where I meet daily. I meet a full day a month with CEOs in my community to basically do peer coaching with one another. I’m a strong believer in coaching, mentoring, and basically putting yourself out there to learn from people, but it also means you need to be vulnerable as well. In order to learn, you need to be vulnerable. You need to be able to say, “Hey, I want to learn from you. I’m here. I want to learn something.”
Michael Ly (27:46):
I’ve taken the approach that, every person I meet, no matter how young or old, that there’s something I can learn from them in every interaction I have. I try to take the best opportunity I have with anybody I have to ask the question, ask questions and to pick their brains and figure out, “Tell me about how you do that,” or, “Tell me about this thing about your life,” just because I want to be able to pick up insights that I can apply to my life.
Steve Loates (28:14):
That’s great. Yeah, Juliet and I are huge believers in the value of coaching. We preach that to every entrepreneur we ever meet.
Juliet Aurora (28:27):
Steve Loates (28:27):
When they say, “What’s the most important advice you can give me?” Get a coach. It will get you on the right path. Obviously, the right coach, but we believe coaching… I think we’ve probably worked with a coach all the time now since, what, 2011 2012?
Juliet Aurora (28:49):
’11. Yeah, we started in ’11.
Steve Loates (28:52):
Yeah, I think we’re now… We’re on our third coach. Each time it’s we needed to hear a different voice or we were looking for a different type of skillset within the coach because of where we were in our journey. All of them have been fantastic that we’ve worked with, and we needed them at that time. I think it’s one of the most important decisions any entrepreneur can ever make.
Steve Loates (29:25):
I may have just given the answer to the next question. That was going to be what advice would you give to someone if they were thinking of becoming a new entrepreneur?
Michael Ly (29:40):
That’s a great question. I would say one is, if you’re thinking about it or you don’t know whether or not that’s a thing in you, I’d first go and surround yourself or talk with friends or family members that you know are entrepreneurs or go reach out to a respected entrepreneur that you know that’s accessible to you and go talk to them about the journey you’re on and what you’re thinking about.
Michael Ly (30:07):
There’s one thing in regards to starting out on an entrepreneurial journey, and then there’s another in, well, what is the product or service that you’re actually going to bring to the market? That’s a whole different conversation. So many people have ideas, and not all those ideas are worth pursuing, and not all of those ideas have a big enough market to pursue that can make it a real business.
Michael Ly (30:33):
I think having a conversation and surrounding yourself, like you said, with mentors, coaches, advisors that can be honest with you… and so that usually means it’s probably not close family members. It probably means [inaudible 00:30:46] that successful uncle that is kind of… maybe that successful uncle you don’t really know that well and maybe you don’t respect a lot because he seems to work all the time, or it’s that cousin or that friend that you’ve lost touch with, but wow, they really… you’ve heard they’ve done amazing with their stuff, and you want to reach out to them, just ask advice. I would say doing that first would be a great start.
Steve Loates (31:10):
That’s great. That brings us to the part of the podcast that we stole from or, I guess, we borrowed from-
Juliet Aurora (31:23):
Steve Loates (31:24):
What did we do? We borrowed?
Juliet Aurora (31:26):
We borrowed. We borrowed it.
Steve Loates (31:27):
Juliet Aurora (31:29):
We were inspired by. How about that? We were inspired by.
Steve Loates (31:32):
That I like. Okay, perfect. I knew you would come up with the perfect analogy. We were inspired by this, which was from a show that used to be on TV many, many years ago called The Actors Studio with James Lipton. It used to be one of my favourite shows. My favourite part of the show was, at the end of every interview he did, he had a series of questions that he asked the same questions of everyone who was ever on the show. I loved it, so I thought, if I am ever fortunate enough to have our own podcast… I wasn’t really thinking TV show, I was thinking podcast, then I would do something similar, so I’d like to ask you some questions. The first one is what one word best defines an entrepreneur?
Michael Ly (32:27):
Steve Loates (32:29):
What profession, other than your own, would you like to attempt?
Michael Ly (32:37):
I’d say angel investor.
Steve Loates (32:39):
What profession would you not like to do?
Michael Ly (32:45):
Steve Loates (32:48):
What sound or noise do you love?
Michael Ly (32:53):
What sound or noise?
Juliet Aurora (32:55):
Yeah, that’s an unusual question. I have never heard that one before, but-
Michael Ly (33:00):
Yeah. Yeah. I love the sound of running water.
Steve Loates (33:04):
Awesome. What book would you recommend that every entrepreneur should read?
Michael Ly (33:12):
Getting Naked by Patrick Lencioni.
Steve Loates (33:16):
Okay. When your own entrepreneurial journey is completed, what do you hope your legacy is?
Michael Ly (33:30):
That my kids know and follow the God that I love and follow, and that my friends and family know me for that same thing.
Steve Loates (33:45):
Excellent. Now, if our listeners wanted to connect with you online or offline, what is the best place for them to connect with you, Michael?
Michael Ly (33:57):
The best place to find me is on LinkedIn or Facebook. You can just search Michael Ly, spelled L-Y. You can connect with me there. It’s very easy. I’m always happy to connect with entrepreneurs or budding entrepreneurs and to talk about their journeys.
Steve Loates (34:15):
Awesome. Before we close out here, I will share a quote, which is one of the things I love to do. I’m a big quote person. My quote for this episode is, “The future is not a place that we go. It is a place that we create.”
Juliet Aurora (34:38):
Steve Loates (34:42):
I guess that brings this episode to a conclusion. Do you have anything you would like to add, Juliet?
Juliet Aurora (34:49):
No. Just thank you very much, Michael, for joining us, a great conversation. Yes, we kind of got off track a little bit, but I always enjoy having a conversation with you and hope to see you at Accounting Salon soon.
Michael Ly (35:02):
Great. Thanks, Juliet. Thanks, Steve.
Steve Loates (35:04):
Thank you very much, Michael, really appreciate it. You’ve been a wonderful guest. Thank you also to the audience for tuning in and giving us a listen. Hope you found some value and it’s been helpful to you. If you like the podcast, please keep tuning in and downloading and listening. We do love reviews as well. Until next time, take good care of yourself and those that you love. Bye for now.